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Post by arewelost on Mar 31, 2024 23:39:19 GMT 10
What sort of suspensions are load sharing and how do they work? Non load sharing is more common, probably because it is simpler and cheaper.
There are different varieties of load sharing suspensions but the one common feature is that if a wheel on the front axle is forced up by a bump, the system counteracts that and applies a downwards force on the rear axle. So the axles share the weight pretty much evenly.
This is achieved in some designs by having both axles on a swivelling assembly. Others have a swivelling bar that connects the trailing end of the front spring to the leading end of the rear spring. I believe the second type would be more common with caravans.
A picture is worth a thousand words. The first truck has non load sharing suspension. So the axle going over the bump bears a greater proportion of the weight. The second truck has both axles on a swivelling assembly, and each axle bears a similar load.
This caravan one has the swivelling bar joining the springs. As the front axle goes over a bump, forcing the spring up, the trailing end of the spring rises, which forces the leading end of the rear spring down. As each of the springs are attached to the chassis at one end, the suspension is not fully load sharing.
Back to the OP's situation with self levelling suspension on the van. I must confess I don't know how this could work, because if the van is not level due to coupling height not matching the van chassis, then it will be impossible for the system to level it. Perhaps it will put maximum pressure on the front axle in an attempt to do so, exactly the opposite of what would be desirable.
As this is outside my experience and pay grade I will leave it to others.
What is the small problem with tyre wear on the front axle? Uneven? If so, how? Wearing too fast. It could well be wheel alignment.
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Post by north200 on Apr 1, 2024 14:04:12 GMT 10
Yobarr, this is the first time I have had to disagree with your advice, adjustable shocks work well on corrugated roads. They can be adjusted to walk over the corrugated roads then adjusted for runs on the blacktop. It’s not worth the expense if you run on the main roads.
Some of the roads we travel on are the Savannah way, Gibb, Kalumburu road, Gary Junction, Tanami so it’s worth spending the money.
The shocks need to be built specifically for the weight of the caravan. A suspension engineer that is use air suspension on trucks can set the pressure and valves to work with the air suspension.
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Post by yobarr on Apr 1, 2024 21:43:15 GMT 10
Adjustable shocks? Yeah, right. Excuse my scepticism, but this appears to be just another well-marketed gimmick, designed to relieve gullible people of their hard-earned.
How do these allegedly magic shocks instantly determine the depth of a corrugation, or the height of the ridges between them?
How do they magically know how to adjust their level of compensation when speeds vary?
How do they magically know whether water tanks are empty or full, which can cause a huge weight difference.
Enough for now, but if you are able to post details of these "adjustable" shocks for my perusal, perhaps I will modify my stance.
But be aware that I am unlikely to change my view that you are simply a victim of another "must have" gimmick's marketing plan. Cheers
P.S Wouldn't happen to have a WDH, or some other magical "stability system" that is virtually useless at highway speeds, would you?
Bet the salesmen don't mention that fact to gullible buyers.
My car and van run at 6800kg all up. with 1350kg on steer, 2300kg on rear axle and 3150kg GTM. All legal, all safe.
No WDH, no stability system, no other allegedly magical devices.
Just made sure that my car was matched to the van, and that both are loaded correctly.
NEVER steps out of line on the highway, or in the bush., and is unaffected when overtaking or being passed by 160 ton quad Roadtrains.
I travel long distances at that weight on dirt roads and outback tracks with only EFS XTR shocks, no problems.
But it was your money to do with what you wish.
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Post by north200 on Apr 2, 2024 8:34:11 GMT 10
No WDH
Tug runs at about 5000kg
Caravan runs at about 4000kg
Both have automatic air suspension
King adjustable shocks with remote cooling canisters
I love a good argument with a beer and a friendly conversation after.
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Post by yobarr on Apr 2, 2024 19:54:50 GMT 10
No WDH Tug runs at about 5000kg Caravan runs at about 4000kg Both have automatic air suspension King adjustable shocks with remote cooling canisters I love a good argument with a beer and a friendly conversation after. 5 ton and 4 ton. That's Heavy Duty Stuff! However, that being the case, I see even less reason to mess around with what, in my opinion, is no more than a gimmick. You can rest assured that there is no way I'd be even remotely concerned if the truck wasn't level, or the van was slightly nose-down. To get the rear of a 5 ton vehicle to drop by more than a few mm there would have to be an enormous towball weight. Have you checked that lately? Forget using towball scales, as in many/most cases they are terribly inaccurate. Like you, I enjoy a good arguement, but I tire of people getting upset when proven wrong. "I've been doing it like this for 50 years" doesn't mean it is right. When I initially joined another forum all Hell broke loose when I told that a WDH increases caravan weight, but when I subsequently proved this to be true I got reluctant agreement, although one member still argues that Black is White. |
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Post by arewelost on Apr 2, 2024 22:22:00 GMT 10
Yobarr said .... My car and van run at 6800kg all up. with 1350kg on steer, 2300kg on rear axle and 3150kg GTM. All legal, all safe. No WDH, no stability system, no other allegedly magical devices. Just made sure that my car was matched to the van, and that both are loaded correctly. NEVER steps out of line on the highway, or in the bush., and is unaffected when overtaking or being passed by 160 ton quad Roadtrains. I travel long distances at that weight on dirt roads and outback tracks with only EFS XTR shocks, no problems. And then Yobarr said (referring to others) ..... "I've been doing it like this for 50 years" doesn't mean it is right.
Sorry, couldn't resist. Not intended to get into a discussion on the pros and cons, as well as not really related to this subject.
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Post by yobarr on Apr 3, 2024 7:12:18 GMT 10
Yobarr said .... My car and van run at 6800kg all up. with 1350kg on steer, 2300kg on rear axle and 3150kg GTM. All legal, all safe. No WDH, no stability system, no other allegedly magical devices. Just made sure that my car was matched to the van, and that both are loaded correctly. NEVER steps out of line on the highway, or in the bush., and is unaffected when overtaking or being passed by 160 ton quad Roadtrains. I travel long distances at that weight on dirt roads and outback tracks with only EFS XTR shocks, no problems. And then Yobarr said (referring to others) ..... "I've been doing it like this for 50 years" doesn't mean it is right.
Sorry, couldn't resist. Not intended to get into a discussion on the pros and cons, as well as not really related to this subject.
Gee Steve, that was close! After reading the first two lines of your post above I was about to move into top gear and tell of the errors in you making that irrelevant comparison. However, you settled that with your last line. Take care. Cheers. P.S Tganks for posting photos of load-sharing suspensions etc. I will have to take time to learn how to post photos etc. After another run-in with a brain-dead caravanner yesterday I've about had enough of Roadtrains for the moment, and may set out on the Great Central Road. |
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Post by north200 on Apr 3, 2024 7:36:14 GMT 10
Thanks for the advice yobarr, the weight of Mr Cummins over the front axle helps keep the tug level.
I have a HC truck licence but I am not a truck driver, some people don’t understand the difference between experience and qualifications.
I a past life I trained people on heavy underground machinery.
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Post by yobarr on Apr 3, 2024 19:13:18 GMT 10
Thanks for the advice yobarr, the weight of Mr Cummins over the front axle helps keep the tug level. I have a HC truck licence but I am not a truck driver, some people don’t understand the difference between experience and qualifications. I a past life I trained people on heavy underground machinery. Great to see that you realise that holding an HC licence does not necessarily make you a truck driver, unlike the many licenced car drivers who have little idea how to drive a car. How can drivers' licences possibly be issued to people from foreign countries (very diplomatically not named!) who can't even speak, or read, English? And when accidents happen we all stand around "Derr, how'd that happen". Never mind the victims of allowing these incompetent clowns to be on the road. Never having worked underground I don't hold any of those licences, but I've got a heap of machinery licences for earthmoving equipment, Roadtrains etc. BUT unfortunately I've never got around to getting a Road Grader licence. |
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Post by magnarc on May 29, 2024 8:34:36 GMT 10
Just finished reading this thread. Very informative so I thought that I would put my two pennorth in for what its worth! When we bought our 22' van (second hand) we were told by the salesman that we needed a WDH because of the size and weight of the van. Up until then we had always had single axle pop tops. Thinking that the guy knew what he was talking about (first mistake) I duly purchased a hitch and installed it.
Whilst on a trip west we came upon an old bloke in a park who asked me why I had a WDH on the van, after I told him the story he said, "Mate, those guys wouldn't know how to get a root in a brothel with a gold plated dick and $500". Hope that I have not overstepped the mark Mike! but it is a true story. We removed the WDH and he helped me get the van level. I have since driven over 15,000 klms with correctly apportioned weights and the van sits on the road as if glued to it. The Simplicity suspension works well (don't know whether it's load sharing or not) and we have never had a problem with sway.
North200 I have found that Yobarr's advice on these matters, to be accurate, at least in my case. The hitch is hanging on the wall in the garage, will give it away to anyone who wants it. Hope I haven't strayed too far off topic!!!
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Post by Admin on May 29, 2024 10:47:39 GMT 10
>Hope that I have not overstepped the mark Mike! Probably, but it made me laugh  |
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Post by yobarr on Jul 29, 2024 13:56:52 GMT 10
Just finished reading this thread. Very informative so I thought that I would put my two pennorth in for what its worth! When we bought our 22' van (second hand) we were told by the salesman that we needed a WDH because of the size and weight of the van. Up until then we had always had single axle pop tops. Thinking that the guy knew what he was talking about (first mistake) I duly purchased a hitch and installed it.
Whilst on a trip west we came upon an old bloke in a park who asked me why I had a WDH on the van, after I told him the story he said, "Mate, those guys wouldn't know how to get a root in a brothel with a gold plated dick and $500". Hope that I have not overstepped the mark Mike! but it is a true story. We removed the WDH and he helped me get the van level. I have since driven over 15,000 klms with correctly apportioned weights and the van sits on the road as if glued to it. The Simplicity suspension works well (don't know whether it's load sharing or not) and we have never had a problem with sway.
North200 I have found that Yobarr's advice on these matters, to be accurate, at least in my case.
The hitch is hanging on the wall in the garage, will give it away to anyone who wants it.
Hope I haven't strayed too far off topic!!!
Good luck with that! Like you, when I first started caravanning, and before I learned "stuff", I was conned in to buying one of these "must have", widely misunderstood, and vastly over-rated pieces of rubbish. Subsequent to much experimenting, and a bit of in-depth research, I determined that a WDH is used only by those misinformed persons who are trying to make a car do things for which it was not designed. People with a vested interest will tell you that using a WDH reduces towball weight. It doesn't. Never has. Never will. Get a better car or a smaller van instead. After my tests and research I removed this weighty bit of rubbish and gave it to someone who I dislike, but even he has now worked out that it is useless, and wants to give it back to me. Like the McHitch I inherited it will probably end up in the scrap-steel bin. Originally I had planned to drop the McHitch to an address in Sawyers Valley, but a sudden change of plans meant that I had to quickly head across to Newcastle, so the McHitch came with me. It now has gone to the great McHitch camp in the sky. Cheers |
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